Saturday, April 30, 2005

out sourced out manoeuvred - II

Many of you had written what you thought of the previous post, and indeed, had written with patience and precision. I feel I cannot do justice to your responses by replying in comments alone, so this post is to discuss more issues that were brought up.

Im starting with infrastructure. Consumption of commodities like electricity has been increasing over the years. A major chunk of the increase is due to the upper socioeconomic classes in the cities. Meanwhile, the bulk of rural India has no access to power. The price paid for water or for healthcare by a person in the city, is much less than that paid by a person in a rural area.

We are living amidst staggering disparities.

Someone said that BPOs are the initiative of the private companies. They are there purely for profit. Alright. So the private sector is ruled out.

Then another person mentioned that we need to invest money for purposes like sanitation and healthcare, but not at the cost of not having fancy airports and stuff.

While Hyderabad was doing a spit-and-polish and becoming Cyberabad, farmers were committing suicide in AP out of desperation. (Did anyone come across the DTE cover story on that one?)

Another person mentioned that we should apply economics to the issue. Well, sure! why not. opportunity cost right? If we invest in option A, that means we have that much less money to invest in option B.

so now we’ve ruled out the government. ho hum.

Who’s going to do what about the mess? NGOs? They cannot substitute the government. Though several are trying to step into the breach when the government walks away from its duties, they just cannot – look at the staggering scale of anything in our country. I’m trying to imagine it and failing utterly: a billion plus people...

so fine. If the government is out, and the private sector is out, whom do we have? You and me. The general junta. The public at large. Now you have to be at least literate, to be able to push through a reform of that size – not because education gives you some kind of omniscience, but simply to be able to sift through the information available, access reports and resources, fill in forms and cope with legal procedures if for nothing else!

Now our schools are overflowing, education is very expensive. a majority of us hasn’t been fortunate enough to have had a complete education. We have a severe lack of teachers, and those who are in the field have their hands full. (Has anyone read this ? Please do…) Now they’re going to correct papers for the UK and god knows what else. Of course several of our teachers will try for such a job - they need to earn more: they’re trying to support whole families on a pittance. I don’t see them having time to set the system straight. So the teachers are ruled out. If they are ruled out, then the education system continues to be in shambles and that avenue is closed. Ouch?

Ok, next: first world or just us? I’m sticking to my stance on this: both! to make money saying “24 hour service” and make someone else pay a hefty price for it is unfair. Thanks to the person who summed it up for me: “why should we compromise on dignity for the sake of daily wages?”

Is self respect a luxury that only the rich may claim?

A burnout is a beastly thing. It’s a draining experience and it takes a while to get back to normal. Stress is a more long term health hazard. Depression ditto. Setting right nutritional imbalances is long term again. Some people have to make this desperate gamble to support themselves. Some people to make a quick buck. Forget the second, at least they had a choice. Talk about the first. Someone said maybe it’s the way we are conducting our lives all over the world… beyond just the first world - third world issue. Yes. That makes a lot of sense. Many people were saying that there was terrific stress and pressure in several industries. That it is the way the world is now. How true.

What does that say for the system we are in? is it a good one? Is it even remotely thinking of sustainable development? It seems to be causing quite a bit of suffering for a handfuls benefit.

We have had the idea so thoroughly dinned into our heads that globalisation is all good, that progress is simply a matter of money (no matter how inequitably distributed), and that the first world’s condition is the state we should all aim for, that we sometimes forget to stop and consider the evidence that is right before our eyes.

I don’t know how many of you noticed the banner at the end of this page. this is what it says:
When the last tree is cut
the last river poisoned
and the last fish dead
we will discover that we cannot eat money.
Do we want to wait until then?



Blogger Arch Storm said...

1)Again Economics, Have u seen Malaysia? The economy is booming because of the airport that they made. They were sensible enough to realize that if they were ever to get tourists to come to Malaysia to see the Petrona's towers, they first had to create a state of the art airport. The amount of money they gained from issuing tourist visas, and hotel taxes, and other tourism related business helped them to make a profit on top of the amount that they spend on making their very fancy airport. Infact we Indians itself go in hordes to Malaysia for the so called 'truly asian' experience. Do u have any idea of how much airports contribute to the self image of a country? Its a very blunt business tactic to invite tourist dollars into a country starved off other resources. Imagine what would happen if India employed the same tactics! Man our economy wouild explode. All it takes is for one person to do it.

Mrid, I know that you want to feed the poor..i know that u want to make sure that every body gets a home and everything...But from where are u going to generate the resources?? Feed and house all the poor for one day, and the government is busted...feed the poor the next day and the private compnnies are busted...feed them the next day and you and I also are busted!
Charity has to be an act of abundance. SO we have to look at first ways to create the all important revenue...and when money pours in on a residual basis from tourism, BPO's and other sources that initially invested in t o create, then we can feed all the poor without anyone getting busted.

This is ECONOMICS 101 by the way.

8:38 am  
Anonymous kp said...

m..i agree we are on a foolish money-hunt at the cost of basic things..but, tell me, do we really have a choice...a way back? ifso, to wat extent? globalisation occured in the 90s because of acute unemployment problem...u were talking of 1 billion ppl somewhere...tell me, without these BPOS and software concerns, how r we going to meet the exploding employment needs of 1 billion ppl??(to my knowledge, no other industry has such huge intake potential...)the first thing to ensure in developing a nation is to enable every citizen to earn his are we going to do it sans MNCS?? if burning out onself due to excessive stress is bad, starving to death is worse!!
as i understand, BPOS and software concerns are things we cant do wihtout...we shudnt overdo them either....i think u and me shud be practical and worry abt that thin line of difference betn "doing and overdoing", rather than let our emotions do the talking...
"edhuvum azhagudaan...ellayai thaandaadhavarai...aanaal andha ellai daan edhuvo!!"
and btw, why did "feminist, brown-skinned and PROUD OF THAT" change to "feminist,brown-skinned and HAPPY THAT WAY"!!???

2:29 pm  
Blogger ~phobiac~ said...

here is a different thought....

there arent good roads in the rural we really need the big flyovers coming up in the cities??....

there arent good telephone connections in the R we really need this many mobile operators in the cities ??

there arent good touring talkies in the we really need the I max-ses?

there arent good medical facilities in the R we need R&D in stem cell rehab?

there arent enough post offices in the R aREAS...why have so many email ventres here?

there arent enough police protections there...why have Military forces guard Kashmir...tis jus fulla ice !

there arent decent houses there ...why have giant office spaces come up here ??

there arent good bus stands there...why airports....

u dont have good primary schools there ...why have IIMs and IITs here...

the disparity will always be there ...there is nothing that can be done with the wave of a wand...and changes will keep happenig.....and some will be left behind and even they will eventually get there...jus that it will take some time !!

some 5 yrs back there werent jobs...grads...engineers ...Bcoms were u have BPOs and others that atleast give a may be a bad thing....atleast something is afterall better than nothing !!

globalization come with its disavns...well everything in the world for that matter is the same...u have jus talked about the it will look bad....when u put the ills and he pills on the balance...thats when u really know...and they will be balanced cause for every bad thing there will be a good attribute to it....

see what u r talking is about an ideal world....not the typical in the movies where one guy changes the world...well that is really hard to happen in real life....not saying that there werent people who made a change....even they had faults...

take gandhi for instance...the whole world praises him....even then some...thats includes me...who say he was shot....damn he wasn't bombed....

every matter is the same...what about democracy.....communism is where every one is has everuthing..or nothing for that matter....equality was the basis....then why do u think It has failed....look at china...look at russia...!...

well....u hate it...u love it...u cant live without it !!

When the last tree is cut

{it will be cut....gen-modified food)

the last river poisoned

and the last fish dead
{cloned fishes anyone ??)

we will discover that we cannot eat money.

{ we dont have to...we can buy food...}...thats on a lighter note!

11:12 pm  
Blogger Eroteme said...

I could add a tonne to what phobiac said, but I think he has wrapped it up pretty well. One of the posts I cancelled on my blog was exactly about this.
Forget about all that and simply look at the expenditure across the world on:
1. Space research
2. Defense (India's investment in the F16s being the latest)
3. Fashion and cosmetics (its huger than you think it is)

and a lot more. Govt. don't care. Simple. Do we care? Not sure yet.

Disparities will always exist. Eliminating disaprities is not by condemning either side of the dichotomy.

Farmers were doing the same in places where they didn't bother about building an IT investment environment, attracting money and the like. You might be interested in the statistics about states like UP. Now they are able to establish remote help centres and support centres in these villages in AP because of the resources that they have acquired.

Who’s going to do what about the mess?

What mess? I think we need to define that. Was it absent before the coming of the BPOs and the dirty foreigners? :-)

What you seem to be getting at is a question about our very conception of life and happiness and the like. I might be wrong. That's a very individual thing. Not many people I know enjoy teaching in exchange for bed and breakfast. People want money and status and respect and summers in KL and the like. Do you think we can convince them out of it? Do you think we should?
As long as that is not answered we might not be able to realise whether BPOs are for us or not. Or anything for that matter.

7:11 am  
Blogger Rathish said...

Glad you brought this topic up! Here's my two cents about the issue.

True, we working in BPO and they working on cutting edge technology is not a pleasant thought. But what's the alternative - we chuck these jobs and get into product innovation. A matter of choice, attitude and opportunities (that's got nothing to do with BPO!). Let's face it - if world is a market, all we have to offer now is low cost labor, hard work and good customer service. so, if that's what we have to give, that's what we are going to get.

Trust me, BPO is done more good than harm to the society (in an economic sense, let's come to the social issues later!) in general. Middle class, which was once a very slim layer of pseudo-have nots is a thriving, growing class of people. These guys shape the economy and bridge the gap between rich and poor. They buy things and thus help a whole lot of other industries thrive (automobiles, home appliances, real estate ... you name it!). BPO and software industry has made it possible.

Where do we go from here - as the basic infrastructure levels increase, public sector does its part in removing infrastructure bottlenecks, in modifying systems (including education at all levels) to the changing personality of the nation and take us forward. Private sector, thanks to all the red tape that will be removed, will thrive, diversify and come up with innovative solutions that will place graduates in all levels of work. Quality of life will improve, labor would be respected - talented souls will stay, will return, research will flourish and the story goes on ...

trust me, don't evaluate BPO from your position and point of view. See it from the eyes of the guy who should have settled for 2000 Rs job if not less. It's a choice that he's glad to make. so many other jobs that you would have no idea about are far worse than this because neither do they pay nor do they help you grow - it's the same disillusionment in the end.

Of course, it's not all good - the burnout is painful to say the least. But, the only way we chuck this is to reach a point where we give people, another choice worthy of a vocation.

3:16 am  
Blogger wooaaooww said...

The disparity is rather huge. The government will remain shameless. NGOs will keep trying. But I think, those who benefit out of this system owe something to it.

School students and undergrads could be taken to one of those villages, apart from their usual yearly trips for fun.

We have NO idea what it is like to live without power, food and water. Access - when you have to travel miles together for a decent hospital, when one has to wait for the rains before they could have their next meal, when the "higher caste" men are waiting to beat you up because you couldn't return the borrowed money ... we'll perhas understand.

Till then we will shamelessly continue to live in our world of SMSs.

I'm aware of the argument that it's very fashionable to blame the system while being part of it..but where else do we start?

Why, would big corporates find it difficult to adopt villages?

10:37 am  
Blogger m. said...

been sitting quietly and listening to what people have had to say the second time around... well : its time to spring up again! :-)

@archstorm : "The economy is booming because of the airport that they made"... whoa! one glitzy airport was ALL it took? economic policies and political will may have had a minute role in it somewhere you know... please do conceed it : the economists are going to weep buckets if you dismiss them like that! :d

as to what you had to say about feeding people and charity etc : lets have it straight up once and for all. were NOT doing anyone a favour : we have taken what was not ours. now we need to feel noble about giving a fraction of it back?

@kp : "do we really have a choice". 2 words for it : learned helplessness. we are thoroughly conditioned to think we dont. if youre talking welfare of the majority, tell me, shouldnt the people living in the rural areas - 70% of our population - at least get a fair hearing??

the description changes as my take on it changes - the first time i had just met some people whose politics thoroughly pissed me off. so "proud of it" was to declare that i am glad to fight for some ideals, and they could go stuff themselves! :-) "happy that way" now because feminism and brown skinned politics keep me sane and reasonably happy. im at peace.... as much as is possible anyway! ;-)

@phobiac : "the disparity will always be there". we dont have to accept that death sentence. the disparity was created by us, and be undone by us. "just that it will take some time" - and in that time millions of people must live painfully and die without dignity. let us not be magnanimous in condoning a sacrifice which requires someone elses life. i also dont agree with what you term democracy. it seems to be a democracy that extends rights exclusively to the corporate world and its very rich consumers alone.

your own spoof of the banner drives home the point again painfully! - things have to change. NOW! :-)

@eroteme : "do we care? not sure yet". you tell me. when peoples lives are concerned, can we really afford to let this whole issue dangle negligently from our fingertips while we contemplate idly if its fashionable enough for us to be worried about? its pressing for us to accept responsibility for what is happening and start thinking of ways to undo damage. for each generation that disclaims and is wilfully blind, another two may be paying the price.

@rathish : "if the world is a market". can we ever put a price on clean air, water or health and market it? isnt it ridiculous to unquestioningly uphold such a system? "lets come to the social issues later" - no lets come to em right now!! weve put off too many things for later because it would require an uncomfortably honest look at our actions. "bridge the gap between the rich and the poor" - it never happened. not one of the measures that was to do so ever did. the disparities are widening. even the WTO statistics show it! economists in the world bank have said it - how long can we determinedly close our eyes to it?

@wwooaaooww : hear hear! i hear the clarity of a field person talking! :-)

@ a no nymous: lol, i agree with you rrrrright until the last bit! saw your comment in rathish's blog too : you do express yourself clearly! :-)

please do try and leave a name when you speak here - it would be nice to know who you are, and easier to identify in a discussion like this you know ... even just initials would be fine! :-)

11:55 am  
Anonymous a no nymous said...

You see the comment I left on your blog? Where? I dont see it?

As far as my name goes: call me "one of one billion". (I dont know if you watch Star Trek - 'seven of nine' ring a bell?). I'm a nameless cog in the vast programmer-BPO-borg that India has become.
.oO ( stoopid joke )

Seriously though, I sign my posts as 'a no nymous'. That's almost the same as using my initials.. no? (If I'd had a blogspot account... I'd use that to post. But I dont have one.. yet :-\)

2:37 pm  
Blogger ~phobiac~ said...


what u say would work in an ideal world where everyone is the same...but in the typical world therez nothing that can be done to do away with the parity....

not that I am saying that i would like ti see people die of poverty and all that ...cept that the disparity exixts thro the ages and evolution and the survival of the fittest is in vouge even in today discussion of bridging the gap between the rich poor...that have and the havenots..

even in the king - queen times there were gaps in the socio economic picture....

see.. what I am saying is that removing prverty and the low life s possile....and bringing the last rung in the socio eco ladder is possible but the ladder will remain....

now look at it this way....whe every one has the barest water health and a place to live...I mean everyone....then what they will be talking about is....hey how come that guy has a car...every one must have a car then planes....mansions....even then people will be talking about this disparity...

see when there is 1 and 10....there is a remove 1 and take the leven 3 and compare it with 10...even then there will be a cannot be 10 for every one...

now to talk about other issues...take this as an example...

The guy at the lowest for 8 hrs...gets 60 rs and spends it fully...he didnt go thro school ( mind u primary education is free)...he didnt work thro him colege...he didnt work for 16 hrs a day..but still enjoys his full pay...though it is le..that being less is not my fault....he gets ration rice ,sugar,oil and stuff at a lower rate and more in quantity...

now look at me...I studied thro school( mind u my dad had to work hard to make me u cant say I had it give me education ...there was an effort put pls dont say...hey u got ur edu and he didnt)and thro college and now I work for 6-17 hrs a day and all this is my effort and I am being paid in thusands every months....and 30 % of it goes away in dont get the rations at a sub-rate..I pay for the water that I get and nothing I free of subsidised....even though I contribute more to my countary that the other guy....dont u see a disparity there ??....

see...when u look at the disparity in one case also look for it in other scenarios...

I didnt get a scholarship where as the topper of my class did...there u dont talk of discrimination ...why...because he is better and he deserves it...and another guy got a partial aid as he was better....not thats the case with the economic divide....

everyone has something and get what the deserve for that...u might say that guy was born poor ,not his fault...same here.. was born with a low IQ/...again not my fault....genetics play a role here...

so...there is a divide was ,is and will be there....

see....we have the Ambania..the Fords...Lincons...and many mores who made something of themselves from nothing.....

U R WHAT U CHOOSE TO BE....the poorest guy is poor beause he chooses to be poor....

Finally....I ..u ...or we can do nothing about it....they have to do it themselves...(when I say them....I mean any one who wants to change his life for the better)...

The divide is there...cause people choose it....and want to be....

just a thought....actually wanted to put it in a better way....Talking about this is easy...putting it down is hard...and the whole thing might look confusing....

10:56 pm  
Blogger ~phobiac~ said...

oops....the previous comment has a million typos...the reason ...I was typing the whole thing with the window minimized.....My manager was around...hope u were able to understand the sub-standard language...

5:03 am  
Blogger Arch Storm said...

jus one small commesnt mrid..

IF EVERYONE WERE EQUAL, WE WOULD ALL BE POOR.. want proof? look at communism.

10:41 am  
Blogger sensiblystoned said...

Im not going to say much except maybe add to whats been already said. But I think its a pity when people believe that the standard of living is improving by the boom of BPOs and software companies. For every forward step the middle class takes, the rich take two steps and the poor take two backward steps. Its just a make believe bubble that keeps the people feel goody-goody about themselves. Its a pity when the media is more concerned about H1B visas, foreign trade embargos, economic sanctions while free power for farmers and free midday meals for farmer's family is secondary. NGOs can keep trying all they want but whos going to fund them. What you are saying is to kill the hen that lays the golden egg. The BPOs and software companies must be sanctioned to give 5% every fiscal year towards building rural community. Only 6% of Indias population pays taxes, now thats where the disparities keep becoming wider.

11:01 am  
Blogger Baejaar said...

"Give a man a fish and he wil survive a day, teach him to fish and he will surivive forever" (or something of that sort)

Well we need to make sure that the economy is self sustaining. There has been perpetual debate about the top-down and bottom-up approach. The former is all about developing cities/metros, large scale industries and waiting for the benefits to trickle down to the villages. Eg: What arch storm was talking about. The latter is concentrating at village/district level. Its hoping that once you take care of micros, macros are automatically taken care of. Eg: green revolution, Amul, co-operative societys.

We need to take the best of both world - identify and encourage micro-level economies. This can include support for fertilizers, co-operative societies, eliminating middle men from villagers etc and make them self sufficient. Meanwhile we need to continue investing in development of cities, aerospace, cutting edge medicine etc.

While researching stem cells, we might stumble across cheaper ways of curing some other disease. Money spent by NASA had led to so many products which are now being used in hospitals and even in homes for day to day use.

To add to it, nowadays ITC has set up e-kiosks where farmers can directly check the price of their products and sell their produce at maximum rates.

If a patient in some remote hospital needs expert opinion previously he had very little choice. But now we have tele-medicine.

So is the case with satellite-education. It is well known fact that most of the villages (atleast I know in TN) has atleast 1 community TV. This helps in increasing the literacy levels.

6:23 am  
Blogger Eroteme said...

Dear m.,
I am not sure what the main issue being raised is?

Is it about inequality?
Is it about BPOs and MNCs and software companies doing something bad to human beings and Indians in particular?
Is it about our absence of participation in matters relate to the world around us?
Is it about what matters in the long run?

It would be helpful if we get to know what exactly you wish to address here. It seems like it started with discussing the real role of BPOs and ended up becoming ... just about everything.

Dear Baejaar,
NASA's investment in research is something good and useful, but the percentage is what we need to look at. A trip to the Moon is many billion dollars. Bush's plan to put man on Mars has a budget running into many billion dollars. Carbon film and Carbon fibre research (which is used in many industries now) is pittance compared to that. Cut down on one trip to any celestial body and we can feed a nation in Africa. Not a conjecture, but a fact.

11:51 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok- just read this rather long discussion on BPOs. I agree with the "up-holders" of the BPOs in a few areas but also agree with M in others. A couple of instances of the latter: 10 yrs later, the disadvantages of the BPOs will be be completely forgotten & trampled over in the mad craze for making the money involved. Sure - it's a win-win situation for now: but the major aspect in consideration is economical.

@someone who talked about the Green Revolution: Science has now shown that it was partly a disaster. BECAUSE the long term view of things were ignored at that pt. Still ignored by majority of the population coz they only think of the grain we now produce. "India is now capable of not only feeding our own population but we also have excess". Well, thats great I think. Till we see the utter havoc the Rev has caused: land filled with fertilizer (economics students must have read abt the "double-subsidy" involved in this)- seeds (sold by American & the E.U comp) that NEED more water, more fert than we have really.

Fert accumalates in our bodies but we think: Well, atleast we have the grain. We would go hungry otherwise.

All this : while the PRODUCTIVITY of the land has gone down- simply put-post the Green Rev, more land has been tilled. thus more grain. Not an increase in productivity. The Green Rev was sold so brilliantly to us that speaking against it is almost anti-national.

Ive chosen an issue here just to highlight what i think will ultimately happen to the BPO issue as well.The Green Rev, still hailed, as an incredible success, has left behind an Indian Farmer who is heavily debt-ridden coz he has to now pay for fertilizers (he didnt need so much in the first place), High-bred seeds (which u get preferential loan for- an act that the govt does to promote these seeds) & who has forgotten the way his grandfather farmed using his instincts. The method of farming he learned was completely "outsourced" (I think i've made my views clear on the results of this particular outsourcing).

Almost forgot: @the person who pointed to progress in village saying theres atleast one TV in each rural area: Well. uve underestimated it! We have "progressed" so fast & so much that theres a lottt more than that(there was an India Today Cover issue abt how ppl who had lil access to drinking water & proper sanitation had TVs in their houses). I rather think it's for entertainment, not education as we optimistically think:). Priorities have changed a lot, havent they?


5:04 am  
Blogger Baejaar said...

If one spends a billion dollar in directly feeding a nation, its a temporary solution. It doesnt solve the root of the problem in the first place. Take for eg India, while there were suicides by farmers in AP, there were grains overflowing in godowns. Its not lack of food but lack of purchasing parity. We need to generate employment and make sure that the economy (everywhere including rural) is self sustaining.

Instead of handing over a billion dollars to million people which will sustain them for a month, invest them in mega-schemes say space programs. They generate lakhs of jobs (albeit indirectly) which will sustain them longer. It will also ensure that they live with dignity and not at the mercy of the govt for ever. May be you can check this link How setting up a launch complex has recovered their investments

May be the govt doesnt directly invest too much money into research of Carbon fibres but have a look at the no of technologies developed by NASA which is in civilian use. Here is a nice list.

8:03 am  
Blogger sensiblystoned said...

Baejaar: if only you really knew about some of the things NASA and DARPA fund!!!! Some are outrageous and some are brilliantly preposterous!!!

2:31 pm  
Blogger mathangi said...

dear m
it is a pleasure to read your blog, just to look at the varied topics that you raise and the amazingly well informed and intellectual discussions which follow. enough has been said about the issue, but like one other person who brought it up, what really is your main grouse here.. the government, the american companies which outsource, the corporate world? i tried looking for it, but in both your blogs you seemd to have pronounced guilty the concept of outsourcing without even trying it. of course, few issues cannot be forgotten... do we need the indemnity of putting on a fake accent and talking to people who, at best are indifferent, or at worst, like a few DJs of a radio station here in the US are going to abuse you because you ursurped the job which belongs to one of them. no we do not. (but the solution to that does not lie in totally eradicating what is becoming a huge and successful industry now)but do we as a devoloping nation need the money? or the future possiblity of better infrastructure pouring in through these outsourcers? heck yes. it is an undeniable fact that gurgaon or noida or even bangalore is the way it is now because of the multinationals who were lured by cheaper cost of set up of their huge big enterprises. should we as a country with the vast disparities that you brought to notice, say no to investment opportunities just because power supply distribution is not the same in cities and villages... im sorry, i really do fail to see the connection between the problem and its cause as you suggest.
and hey, whoever tells you people leave work at 6.00 in the US was not talking about my boss...:(
it definitely depends on the kind of job you do. any professional job, whether here or in india does not really go by the clock. its the productivity that matters.

2:08 pm  
Blogger ~phobiac~ said...

Uhmm.....long comments and replies everywhere !!...

Senorita 'M' time to key-in ur next post ?!!?......

9:20 pm  
Blogger m. said...

@ a no nymous (aka one of one billion :d) :
I could see your comment cos im shmart! Ok, if you prefer the mundane truth, you’d left your comment in the earlier post (part 1)!! hehe... So when are you gonna start blogging? :d

@ phobiac: I wouldn’t say a person's poor because they chose to be so. And certainly we don’t all get what we deserve (what an ideal world that would be!). yes, some people do succeed despite the system. Personal ability does play a big role, conceded. Its just that for the handful who manage to make it to a better life, there are still thousands who cant. The system is inherently unfair: the disparity between rich and poor has only been growing. Every year the gap increases, with no sign of equality on the horizon. Im not in the least anti-development : what im worried about is sustainable development.

@archstorm : precisely. Neither system is perfect. Both were made by people. Both can be altered by people.

@ sensibly stoned: yeah… some of the WTO and UN statistics are real eye openers! Why, even in our own country, the poverty index is so vague: we only have a very rough idea of how many people are below the poverty line. but all we read about it in “lifestyle” articles is the latest party fetish in the metros!

@baejaar: hullo. Welcome to the blog :- )
e kiosks are one of the better ways that technology has been used, yes. But tell me, whos going to be around to use the kiosks when everyones starving? Or queuing up at the hospital in the nearest city? I’d rate having enough clean food and water over having a comp any day of the year!
As for educational programs on tv… Have you seen the TVR for that kind of program? Its abysmal! Hardly anybody sees tv for education : infotainment is the closest you can get – and that’s not on the national channels.

@ deepa: oye! Finally eh? ;-) That was well said… wanna start blogging too?! nope - I'll never give up! ;-)

@ mathangi : hullo, welcome to you too! Thanks from everyone who comments, and me! ;-) as to what my “grouse” is, ill give you the answer I gave eroteme: all of the above! :d This is just one aspect of the system; its not an isolated problem. Inequality, the way we react to the world around us, the socio economic order, are all part of long term development issues. As to noida, gurgaon and bangalore, ill try and write about the plight of the urban poor sometime … look at maharashtra : the government was busy trying to propose disenfranchisement for slum dwellers. How fair is that? Their vote is the only means of the urban poor being heard.

@ phobiac (again! ;-) ) : I’m abandoning the comp for the next two weeks and returning to the wild!:d theres something brewing… but I don’t want to broach the subject until ive thought about it a little more. shall be back with lots of blah! :- )

10:49 pm  
Blogger Senthil said...

Holy cow! No wonder it's been a long time since you've put up a post... lookit all these comments!

2:57 am  
Blogger ~phobiac~ said...

2 weeka??!!?....aaga....come something....I have no work....and am really really bored !!!

5:43 am  
Blogger ~phobiac~ said... any one alive in here ??/

9:12 pm  
Blogger Karma Prisoner said...

examples are plenty, some for sucess, some for failure, but the bottom line, if something works somewhere does not mean it will work for india too, like malaysia.. the tourisim income worked out fine for them... but in india income from tourism will only help the ones who are rich or well off... the income government gains will go into pockets of corrupt gov official and the remaining will be forced by the tourism industry to be invested in to thier intrest. The same you can see happening in the IT sector, Rich IT cos, over flowing with cash flow get prime property at throw away price.....

all said and done, i feel that there is no proper solution for india, there will always be a pockets of people who are rich & corrupts another set who are stuggeling for a single meal, there cannot be solution to problems haunting india. i maybe (hope) wrong.

talking about feeding the poor, i am pro for it. i know a women who makes Rs.20 a day and feed her 5 kids & herself. i would be more than happy to help her in someway
but again... "feed a man for a day, he is hungry again tomorrow, teach him to fish, you feed him for life"

another prob! human attitude...... never satisfied

4:26 am  

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